Posts by moggy lover

17

I just remembered why this date sounds familiar to me, May 8

by Mulan in

on may 8, 1955, i was baptized.

i was 9 years old and it was a special baptism on a sunday.

for some reason, we didn't have a circuit assembly in the spring that year, so they just held a baptism.. what were my parents thinking?

moggy lover

Well, come to think of it, I was an "oldie" when I was baptised two years after you, Mulan. It was 1957, and I was all of 15 years old.

Oddly enough, I can remember so many things about my baptism, but not the damn date!! I know it was February, because it was winter. The place was a city called Ahmedabad, in India, and the guy who did the dunking was a WTS missionary called Victor Hongal. I was one of three on that day, and it happened on the banks of a river. And it was a circuit assy.

But the date??? Nope. Can't remember. Do I look as if I care?

Cheers

3

Is dedication practiced in the JW religion

by barry in

jw
friends

.

for those of us that have had limited access to jw religion is dedication practiced.. in churches i have been involved in that dont practice infant baptisim it is replaced by dedication where the parents join with the minister at the front of the church and a prayer is offered to god on behalf of the child.. i just wondered if there is anything similar in the jws

moggy lover

No, they do not have anything that can resemble what you are making reference to. At least not in a "ceremonial" way. The intellectual proclivity of the Wt religion inhibits any such activity. They will look upon it as nothing but theatre.

However they do believe that their prospective inductees be "dedicated" to the services of the WTS, [of course calling it being dedicated to joe hoover] They use the scripture at 1Pt 3:21 to urge the inductee to PRIVATELY dedicate himself to this new way of life, making whatever adjustments that are needed to be a sucessful JW. [See, for istance the "United in the Worship of the Only True God" book, pg 35]

Cheers

24

Did Rutherford love his wife?

by VM44 in

did rutherford love his wife?.

if he did, why did he reside in brooklyn, while she lived in california?.

if he did, why during the times he did visited california he resided at beth sarim in san diego, when his wife, mary, resided in the los angeles area, where his son malcolm also lived?.

moggy lover

The verdict of history is clear: No. He did'nt love his wife, I mean.

But then he did'nt love anybody.

Except himself.

Cheers

15

non-denom bible study groups

by TheListener in

jw
friends

is there any such thing as a church or group that gathers together to study the bible and share information without ramming it down everyone's throad and trying to disfellowship anyone who doesn't agree?.

i'd love to eventually attend a bible study group where an exchange of ideas can be had without everyone getting offended or defensive.

sort of like here, but different.

moggy lover

There are several such groups that are around, and by searching, I am sure that you will find one. In fact, very few groups are like the WTS in that they lay down the law to everyone in the fellowship, on pain of expulsion. Thess ones are cultic, and to be avoided.

However, do not be disappointed in that there is no group that permits TOTAL uncorformity. Every fellowship, like ours, which is Baptist, has at least a base list of teachings which are not negotiable.

These may for instance either be Trinitarian, or Unitarian. [I am unaware of any fellowship that allows both doctrines, except enlightened ones like JWD]

Charasmatic or Non [ie tongue speaking, or not] There are a few who don't make an issue of this, but these are rare.

The Integrity of Scripture. [ie there will be those who teach that the Bible is inerrant, and those who will teach otherwise]

But other than this there is a wide divergence of opinion granted an individual to interpret Scripture according to his/her leading

Good hunting

Cheers

131

This forum

by jw in

.

can you people honestly say gods spirit is guiding you?].

i think not!

moggy lover

Hi, JW , Thanks for your insightful post.

However, I feel that either inadvertantly, or deliberately, you are confusing us with vocabulary that has multiple meanings, all of which need greater clarity. Your initial query was : Do we believe that "God's Spirit" is "guiding" us.

I am not sure that is relevant one way or another, since we certainly do not consider ourselves to be EXCLUSIVE spokespersons for God.Like you, all of us are attempting to experience the divine, but in our own way, and we share this experience in verbal, not spirit, communication. So really, it does not MATTER whether this is "Holy Spirit" guided or not. And I am not sure why it should concern you anyway.

However, since you are the one who brought it up, maybe you can help us by DEFINING the terms you used.

What exactly do you mean by "God's spirit"? Are you referring to a THING, like an energy, or force, or even a portion of butter, we use on our toast? or are you referring to a Person, who like God CAN guide us? You see, if you mean the Holy Spirit is a THING, - you - not us will have to explain how this thing can "guide" any one. Get me?

Very often, the NT refers to the Holy Spirit as "speaking", well, does the Holy Spirit speak? How can it, if it is a thing? A radio "talks" but at no time can we describe a radio as "Conversing" with anyone, since it has no volition. To speak, one needs volition, thats why animals cannot speak.

Also what do you mean "guide"? You seem to imply that we believe the Holy Spirit is "BEHIND" this Forum, if that is the case, this isn't "Guiding" is it? To guide, one must LEAD, right? How in your opinion, does the Spirit LEAD?

See, once you explain these things to us, then, and only then, we can have an intelligent conversation, Get me?

Cheers

10

Looking for input on the "Rapture" doctrine...

by Jamelle in

saw a documentary on tv this weekend about it.

have heard about the "left behind" series of books that deal with this belief.. one thing that caught my attention about the belief in the rapture was that it seemed very dark.

it seems to focus more on the scary things that are talked about in revelation than the message of peace and love that i admire in the teachings of christ.. the other thing that bothered me is that it seemed similar to the witnesses in that you have to be "saved" or you are going to die.

moggy lover

The WTS has a rather interesting "spin" on this subject. They suceed in perverting the message of Paul at 1 Th 4:13-18 with such dogmatic boldness, that they make him mean the very opposite of what he is actually saying.

Well what IS he saying? He is saying that when '"The Parousia of the Lord" occurs, there will be two "kinds" of believers: those who are dead, and those who are alive. As far as the dead are concerned, they will "rise" - and as for the ones who are alive, they will be "caught up TOGETHER" with those who have risen, and the two groups will then be "always with the Lord"

Does it say anything about those who are living as having to die? No of course not. That in fact is the point of his revelation. "We who are ALIVE will be caught up" To any intelligent reader of Paul's words the meaning is obvious.

But not to those who wrote the "[human] Reasoning on the Scriptures" book. There is an extended discussion on this section of Scripture on pgs 312-317 and they go to almost absurd lengths to [mis]interpret Paul's words. The WTS insists that at this section of the Bible, Paul is NOT discussing the "rapture" but the resurrection. So that, Paul is saying that EVERYONE, at the time of going into heaven, MUST die. [When the point of his discussion is that the do Not have to] As the various members of the "anointed" die, they are instantly conveyed to their heavenly abodes, which is the "rapture" Now since we know that Christ "came" in 1874, this resurrection has been taking place since 1878 [3 and a half years later] OOPS! What AM I saying???

I forgot - Joe Hoover goofed when he gave his revelation to the Wt society. We now know that Jesus came in 1914, so this "first resurrection" has been occurring since 1918. Till that time, those who were dead had to wait. Then in 1918 they were resurrected as a group without any fuss, invisibly, of course.But now when a member of the "anointed" dies, he does not need to wait, instantly he is conveyed, at death, to heaven. So this "rapture" is a process [according to the WTS] which has been unfolding for the past 88 years, and is not an event, which is what Paul describes it as. And the Lord does NOT descend, the dead go up to him instead. One by one, and not "at the same time" the dead "anointed" will be resurrected

Rather than this event being described as a process, Paul clearly says it happens "at the same time" [KIT vs 17] So unless Paul SAID " at the same time" but MEANT the very opposite, ie "at different times, over at least 88 years" There is no possible way the WTS "explanation" can be sustained.

Incidently, WHO "descends" [vs 16]? We have four J versions of the NT: J7, J8, J13, J14, who say it is YHVH.!! The WTS "translates" these same versions at vs15 as "jehovah", but judiciously ignores these same versions in the next verse!!

Cheers

26

If you could go back in time, how far would you go?

by JH in

jw
friends

.

i'm not talking about going back 200 years now, what i mean is if you could go back to when you were younger, how far back would you go, and re live that period of time up to today, maybe in order to fix something that still bothers you today, or just for the joy of living it again.. if i could go back in time, i'd like to be 17 or 18 years old old again, go back to college, follow a different course, meet plenty of young poeple, party in the bars once more, and re live the joy of having young parents and having a full life in front of me.. how about you, how far back would you go?

moggy lover

If I could go back, I would like to go back to the 1840s , when I could meet my heros, Sherlock Holmes, where every night was foggy, and Alain Quatermain, whose life was a continuous Ripping Yarn.

But <sigh> since you won't permit that, then I'd settle for the 60s: Kennedy, Woodstock, The Beatles, Turning on, tuning out, making out, making love, not war, and best of all, vinyl records. And like all young people, I was immortal

Cheers

53

Official GB spin on decreases. (serious)

by yesidid in

jw
friends

i just received an email from a faithful witness, re their co's visit.

"our co just came back from two months co training.

he said there were two important things headquarters want the brothers to know:.

moggy lover

Like all good prophets of the cynical school, the WTS covers all its bases:

When there is war - The end is near!!

When peace is declared - There you are, we told you so, the end is near!!

When the work increases - the end is near!

When it falls off - There you are, we told you so, the end is near!!

How can they lose?

Cheers

12

During the assembly did you ever notice ... ???

by The_Replacement in

growing up as a kid in the 70's (and early 80's), did you ever notice at the assembly that there was always someone who had a tape recorder on stage and was taping the whole assembly.

are these tapes around today, generally i would love to hear some talks that were given before 1975 and see how many brothers said something big was going to happen, because we all know the watchtower never said that !!!

(yeah right).. any websites that might have a few of these or other interesting topics ???.

moggy lover

Unfortunately, I threw all my tapes out, an act I now severly regret. The only one I can remember recording was a talk in the mid-70s called "Serving with Everlastng Life in View"

But yes, there was a lot of us who made tapes of various sessions. I believe this is discouraged now

Cheers

22

When did JW,s stop considering the nation of Israel Gods chosen people?

by moomanchu in

.

moggy lover

Right upto 1925 the WTS was advocating the return of the fleshly Jews to Palestine. It was in that year that Rutherford piblished his "Comfort For the Jews" book, incidently, after the "Harp of God" his second book.

Evidently, by 1929 and the publication of the book "Prophecy" the Judge, meaning the WTS, had reversed himself, and "Spiritual Israel" was being talked about.

Cheers